The other day, a fellow in my class at Crestline Elementary School, in the “poor” side of Mountain Book, aka The Tiny Kingdom, weighed in on the The war in Gaza drove a lot of people more loco than they already were post.
Peter Rodes Robinson
Have we met? Your name is vaguely familiar to my memory challenged 81-year-old brain. I have lived in Charlottesville and Birmingham.
I generally agree with Caitlin. I was shocked by what Hamas did, but Israel has killed 20 times as many and that's only if you don't count the 7000 decaying bodies under the rubble of Gaza.
Israel is clearly committing countless war crimes. The October 7th attack by Hamas is not clearly a war crime. Occupied peoples are recognized to have a right to resist.
Sloan Bashinsky
If you lived in Birmingham, you may have heard my family’s name, Bashinsky, and you and I might have met, as I am 81 also. I attended Cestitine Heights Elementary School, and then Ramsay High School, before going to school out of state.
I know the casualty and prisoner statistics, more or less. Caitlin Johnstone, Chris Hedges, you, others, can call it what y'all want to call it, but we wouldn’t be having this discussion if Hamas had not made the Oct 7 raid, and it looks to me that the point of that raid was to get Israel to respond as it did, and here we are, and I’m never going to cut Hamas a millimeter of slack, nor do I cut Israel a millimeter of slack. Saying it another way, If I lived in Gaza, and was still breathing, I’d be furious with Hamas for the Oct 7 attack, and I’d be furious with Israel for its response, and I’d be furious with Hamas for not offering to return all of its Oct 7 hostages, if Israel would stop bombing Gaza and bring its army back to Israel.
Peter Rodes Robinson
I was at Crestline School from January 1950 to May 1955. We moved to Forest Park that summer. In 1957 I entered Indian Springs School. My brother Barry attended Ramsey, but he was four years younger.
Israel is holding some 2000 Palestinians WITHOUT CHARGE. Shouldn't Israel let them all go in return for the hundred or so Israeli hostages? That's the standard ratio, BTW. One Israeli is worth 20 Palestinians.
Sloan Bashinsky
I remember you, Peter. I think Israel and Hamas should exchange hostages and promise in writing to never bother each other again, and be struck by lightning and crispy-crittered by God and Allah, if they renege:-)
Peter Rodes Robinson
From your lips to god's ears!
But there is a problem. The leadership of Israel wants ALL OF THE LAND with zero Palestinian refugees.
Sloan Bashinsky
My dystopian solution for a while has been for Israel to detonate its nukes and make all of Palestine uninhabitable and there will be no more so-called holy land for Judaism, Christianity and Islam to fight over.
Peter Rodes Robinson
My father True was in the Air Force reserves and he used to bring home movies of thermonuclear bomb explosions. I loved these! These "hydrogen bomb" explosions were so much bigger and more spectacular than atom bomb blasts, pure fission bombs such as we used on Japan.
What if God is the same way? Loving the spectacle!
Sloan Bashinsky
My father was a navigator-bombardier on a B-29 stationed in Guam. They flew night missions to Japan, to drop conventional bombs. He kept getting his B-29 lost over the Pacific and they had to ditch their payload in the sea and return to Guam. His soul didn’t like killing people he did not see or know.
Meanwhile, I keep playing the broken record. Either Hamas is run by idiots, or the Oct 7 attack got the precise response from Israel it wanted, so that the entire world would turn against Israel, except for America it is turning out, because half or America wants Israel to defend the so-called holy land from Islam. It’s a religious war, and it’s been going on a long time, according to their scriptures.
Peter Rodes Robinson
"Our goal is to rid Gaza of Hamas terrorists and free our hostages. Once this is achieved Gaza can be demilitarized and deradicalized, thereby creating a possibility for a better future for Israel and Palestinians alike," Netanyahu continued on X.
So far Israel has freed one hostage by force and 110 through negotiation (and killed three with "friendly fire"). They have made no discernable impact on the ability of Hamas to function.
If you believe Netanyahu about his goals, then Israel's military operation in Gaza has been a total failure.
But what if the announced goals are merely a distraction, a cover for the true goal of making Gaza Uninhabitable. Then Israel seems to be performing quite well.
Sloan Bashinsky
The Oct 7 attack punched every last button in Israel’s leaders and military, they went insane, and that is what Hamas hoped would happen, and here we are. Giving Hamas a free pass, and laying all the fault on Israel and America is what Hamas hoped would happen. I see no way Israel could defeat Hamas in Gaza, and Israel learned that pretty quick after sending in the IDF. Caitlin Johnstone, Chris Hedges, etc. are doing Hamas’ public relations work for Hamas. The whole thing disgusts me, but giving Hamas a free pass is unconscionable. As is what Israel has done in Gaza. The Gaza civilians meant nothing to Hamas. Its objective was and is to defeat Israel on the world stage. How it all will end, or pause, is unknown. I hope Israel doesn’t become so deranged, or feel so threatened, that it uses its nukes against its enemies to the east.
Peter Rodes Robinson
How does blaming or not blaming Hamas change anything?
I agree with you that Israel is reacting the way Hamas hoped.
Sloan Bashinsky
it is really important to humanity, and to the truth, that it be known that what happened in Gaza after Oct 7 was what Hamas hoped would happen; that Oct 7 was clever bait, which Israel swallowed hook, line and sinker. That has to be laid face up on the table top in any negotiations. Both Hamas and Israel need to be tarred and feathered on the world stage. And America should lead that charge, but I doubt it will. If I were president, I would be leading that charge, and I probably would be assassinated pronto, by Americans :-)
Peter Rodes Robinson
I think what you describe here is the truth. But what does it matter?
More and more I ignore what is being said, and just look at what is being done. Israel is committing daily war crimes. Do they get a pass because Hamas baited them?
Sloan Bashinsky
Hell no, Israel doesn’t get a pass! Before God, Israel is already judged. So is Hamas. But who judges and punishes them on this world? The UN has no power to do anything. So all that’s left is the court of public opinion. Caitlin and Chris Hedges, and 99.99 percent of their readers condemn Israel and give Hamas a pass. That’s nuts.
Peter Rodes Robinson
I call Gaza a "concentration camp." What do you think?
Sloan Bashinsky
It became one after the Oct 7 attack, and it became a Dresden, because the people had no place to go after Egypt turned them down. Hamas knew what it would be like in Gaza, if Israel took the bait. So, Hamas was the architect of Gaza becoming a concentration camp.
Peter Rodes Robinson
Ah! We disagree. I say Gaza has always been a concentration camp.
>a place where large numbers of people, especially political prisoners or members of persecuted minorities, are deliberately imprisoned in a relatively small area with inadequate facilities, sometimes to provide forced labor or to await mass execution. The term is most strongly associated with the several hundred camps established by the Nazis in Germany and occupied Europe in 1933–45, among the most infamous being Dachau, Belsen, and Auschwitz.
Sloan Bashinsky
You didn’t watch “Schindler's List”? That was about a concentration camp. The Jews in the camp, who were not able to help Germany’s war effort were burned alive in ovens. The survivors were fed very short rations. They had body lice. If they tried to escape, they were killed. If they pissed off a German officer, they were killed. That’s how it was in all of Nazi Germany’s concentration camps. Jews all over Western Europe were rounded up and sent to those camps. The Jews in my father’s ancestral bloodline, who had not come to America, all were put in those camps and died there. I can’t believe you and I had the same history teachers at Crestline, and you say Gaza was a concentration camp before Oct 7.
Peter Rodes Robinson
I gave you the definition. In what way does Gaza not match the definition?
Jews are not the sole possessors of the term "concentration camp".
And I say what is happening in Gaza is a "holocaust".
destruction or slaughter on a mass scale, especially caused by fire or nuclear war.
"a nuclear holocaust"
Peter Rodes Robinson
Hamas is more popular than the PLA among rank and file Palestinians, because Hamas fights the occupiers while the PLA collaborates.
Sloan Bashinsky
Look at how being in bed with Hamas turned out for the people of Gaza. Be careful who you sleep with? You might end up dead.
Peter Rodes Robinson
And yet they prefer Hamas to the PA. One might think they agree with New Hampshire:
LIVE FREE OR DIE
Sloan Bashinsky
Perhaps, then, they should be allowed to experience that on their own terms and it be respected by the likes of Caitlin, Chris Hedges, you and me and the UN?
Peter Rodes Robinson
I don't understand.
Sloan Bashinsky
Live free, or die. If that was their choice, if the people of Gaza understood the risk of aligning with Hamas, then who is anyone to argue with or second guess them? Now, Hamas, I think it and its leaders are gonna be really surprised when their rolls are called up yonder, as will Israel’s leaders and the IDF, as will a lot of people.
Peter Rodes Robinson
It seems that you are the one second-guessing the Gazans. Seems like you are saying, "You people are making a big mistake, if you support Hamas."
I'm saying:
"I completely understand your frustration and your determination to be free, even if the cost is very high."
Sloan Bashinsky
I said nothing of the kind. Read again what I wrote. How it turned out for the people of Gaza was determined by Hamas and Israel.
Peter Rodes Robinson
And, ironically, the Gazans seem to approve of how it has turned out, since approval of Hamas has risen.
Do you agree?
Sloan Bashinsky
Well, if the Gazans approval of Hamas has risen, why is anyone upset with Israel doing Hamas’ bidding in Gaza?
Peter Rodes Robinson
Because Israel has created the situation where the only conceivable path to freedom requires that tens of thousands of Palestinians die.
I personally believe this is the only path to freedom. That judgment of reality does not require that I approve of daily war crimes.
The world must stop approving of Israel and condemning the Palestinians. What we are seeing now is a step along that path.
Sloan Bashinsky
The world needs to stop approving of Israel and Hamas, and maybe the people of Gaza will benefit from that, and maybe not. Palestine is much larger than Gaza, and there are other radical Islamic factions vying for big dog there. Mixing that up with a solution for Gaza, won’t help produce a solution in Gaza.
Peter Rodes Robinson
Please give concrete examples.
Sloan Bashinsky
I just did give you concrete examples. Gaza is not Palestine. it is a small part of Palestine. Hamas is in Gaza. Deal with that. Forget the rest. Maybe that will lead to a cease fire in Gaza.
Peter Rodes Robinson
2,375,259 Palestinians in Gaza
2,747,943 Palestinians in West Bank
https://youtu.be/Ru49O7oSBIk?si=V4AvdQNH3QuxX5od
Sloan Bashinsky
Peter, the mistake of creating the nation called Israel will haunt humanity for a very long time. Regardless of what is reported, or not reported, said, or not said, the cause of what’s going on in the Middle East is the scriptures of the three Abrahamic religions. Good luck fixing that :-). This morning, after a dream about what I took to be the feminine essence, or, the Holy Spirit, which Christendom does not recognize as the feminine side of God, I posted. this comment under Caitlin and Chris Hedges’s newest reports.
"Three nights before 9/11, a familiar voice asked me in my sleep, “Will you. make a prayer for a Divine Intervention for all of humanity?” I woke up, wondering what that was about, and made the prayer. On 9/11, I understood what it was about. My lady friend at the time and I hoped America would not get into another foreign war it could not win. A few days later, as I walked out of a US Post Office, the familiar voice said “America needs to get out of the Middle East altogether and let Islam and Israel work it out, or fight it out, and in that way learn which, if either, is God’s chosen people. I then watched America get into two foreign wars it could not win. And nearly into several more. And now another looms. It looks to me that the only cure is America, and the world, receive huge injections of estrogen, psychologically and spiritually. Without that , nothing will change in America, the Middle East, the world - humanity."
Peter Rodes Robinson
The problem is 5 million stateless Palestinians. I will post my solution later.
You might want to think about what is your solution.
Sloan Bashinsky
I have thought for a very long time what is the solution, and in the human realm, it is America gets out of the Middl East altogether, and deals with the many problems within its own borders, the beams in its own eyes, which is what Jesus in the Gospels recommended. As for fixing what’s going on in Palestine, I hope you have a viable solution, because I do not, other than a massive estrogen injection by God.
Peter Rodes Robinson
I'll give you a hint: my solution does not employ violence.
Sloan Bashinsky
Neither does a massive estrogen injection. So, Peter, what is your solution?
Peter Rodes Robinson
I see one possible solution: the world should buy a country for the Palestinians.
It would not be cheap. Rebuilding Gaza after Israel destroys it will also not be cheap, but the world will pay for it. Here is my proposal.
Buy a poorly developed part of Sudan bordering Egypt with a size roughly equivalent to Israel. Include an outlet to the Red Sea.
Sudan is one of the poorest countries in the world with a GDP of approximately $34 billion. It is located in the same general part of the world as Gaza but far enough away from Israel. The no-longer-stateless Palestinians would not try to launch rockets across Egypt.
Price? Offer to permanently redirect the aid that the US gives Israel (approximately $4 billion per year) and give it to Sudan instead.
Enlist a coalition of nations to build a new Palestine in the area that was part of Sudan. The US can contribute the money it would otherwise spend rebuilding all the buildings and infrastructure in Gaza that Israel has turned into rubble. Israel can rebuild Gaza.
Sloan Bashinsky
Thank you.
Do you think the Palestinians and Hamas and Hezbollah, ISIS, PLA, Iran. etc.might say, buy that land for Israel and we will stay in Palestine? Do you think Islam will ever agree to the State of Israel being in Palestine? Do you think the Palestinians or Israel will agree to leave their ancestral holy land? I doubt it, but if they did, either the Palestinians or Israel moving to Sudan could the solution, for a while. I hope you will post your solution into Caitlin’s and Chris Hedges’s forums.
The solution I proposed several times is, America offers all Israelis sanctuary in America, to repent for not doing that after WWII, and to resolve the problem of Israel being in the heart of islam. I doubt America would go for it, though, and I doubt Israel would go for it, either. The American right want Israel where it is, defending Christendom’s holy land from Islam. Donald Trump told Israel he is their best friend, hoping to the vote of every Jew and conservative Christian in America.
Peter Rodes Robinson
One of the reasons for the October 7th attack was that the Arab world was getting much too cozy with Israel to suit Hamas. The Arab world would not be the sticking point.
Would the Palestinians go for it? The alternative is death by famine and disease in Gaza or settler gunfire in the West Bank.
Sloan Bashinsky
Like I said, I hope you post your solution into the Caitlin and Hedges forums. Perhaps, Hedges, at least, being a retired respected war correspondent, who put his life on the line many times in war zones, who was a close friend of Hama’s founder, Ahmed Yassin, has enough clout to get the people in Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, the White House, etc. high places' attention?
Peter Rodes Robinson
One of the reasons for the October 7th attack was that the Arab world was getting much too cozy with Israel to suit Hamas. The Arab world would not be the sticking point.
Would the Palestinians go for it? The alternative is death by famine and disease in Gaza or settler gunfire in the West Bank.
Sloan Bashinsky
I dunno. Maybe if you open the door to various points of debate, that’s a death knell. Maybe you just present it as you presented it to me and see what comes back, and retire and think about how to respond, or simply point them back to your solution. You see very well how easy it is for people to wander away from the main point.
Peter Rodes Robinson
How about a very short intro?
One must wonder how many decades people will cling to the vision of a two-state solution for the Israelis and the Palestinians while the facts on the ground move continually in the other direction. Nor is a one-state solution any more possible. Time for a new idea.
Sloan Bashinsky
Agreed. I think any responses to your proposal will reveal what many I have discussed this with at the Hedges and Caitlin forums have denied, which is this a religious war, and its not going to go away, so why not try something pragmatic to try to do an end run around it.
Peter Rodes Robinson
I'll post a slightly revised version here later today.Sloan Bashinsky
Post it at the top of Caitlin’s newest Gaza war report, so it will be at the top and have more chance to be read. Send it to me and I will repost it at the top of Hedges’s next report.
sloanbashinsky@yahoo.com
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