Summer Solstice chatter about illusion, belief and direct experience

       I engaged in some mindless chatter after this showed up in my Facebook timeline yesterday, June 21, 2023. 

Poetic Outlaws

“You always replace one illusion with another illusion. 

Always… 

So your wanting to be free from illusion is an impossibility. That itself is an illusion. Why do you want to be free from illusions? That's the end of you.”

—U.G. Krishnamurti

Sloan Bashinsky

In the early 1990s, I read two or maybe three books written by U.G. Krishnamurti, who described having experienced a spontaneous metaphysical event that changed him permanently. It happened to him, he took no credit for it. He said he lived in a totally natural state, where his mind no longer operated, unless something engaged it. He described, before the changes, meeting and speaking with J. Krishnamurti, and during their conversation, U.G. told J that he thought J had seen the sugar, but he did not think he had tasted it. I didn't live in J's skin, so I don't know what he saw or tasted. One thing I read that J said, which rang true for me, was, the solution to every problem is contained within the problem. I shared the first of U.G.'s books, in which he described what had happened to change him, with some people where I lived. After reading it, a fellow, who kept saying we can't. know anything, not really, so why try to know anything?, asked me what I thought about U.G.? I said I thought U.G. really did have the experience he described, and it really changed him in the way he described, yet he said in the book that he told people who came to him that he had nothing to offer them; he could not help them experience what he had experienced, it was an anomaly, and yet he wrote more books, after saying in the book I read, that he had nothing more to tell anyone. Maybe he needed to make money off book royalties?

Diwakar
Sloan Bashinsky as far as i know all his books are property of their publishers. He hadn't claim any ownership on books neither charged any commission

Sloan Bashinsky

Diwakar Publishers own books they publish, and the authors are paid totalities, in my day with publishers anyway. Of course, authors can decline royalties or donate them.

Diwakar

Sloan Bashinsky ok what i wanted to say is, he didn't author any books and he didn't charge any money if someone wanted to write a book on him.

 

Sloan Bashinsky

Diwakar I read 2, maybe 3 books written by U. G. Krishnamuri. Here's a link to books about him, several show him as the author. https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en...

For all I know, U.G. didn't accept payment for his books. However, the first of his books I read, which described his journey in and from India to England, where the big change came, looked like he was struggling financially in England to get by, and why not accept payment for that book about his truly DIFFERENT experience? I have had so many truly DIFFERENT experiences that it's become like breathing, for me. I wrote reams about earthly and unearthly experiences, weaving in an out of each other. I wrote about other people I knew having somewhat similar experiences. I reported conversations with people having their own experiences, and people still in the belief stage. I published books about all of that, and when I realized the books were not going to make me a living, financially, I gave them away. I gave away later books I wrote about my and other people's evolving and/or not evolving process. Some of those books now can be read for free at an internet library - archive.org. Just enter Sloan Bashinsky in the search space and press Enter. 

Marc 

When you know that it is impossible to understand the universe, then why would anyone not live with illusions that are not toxic but in fact helpful? It's like God: Why try to prove it exists? If it makes you feel better to believe in God, and that you do not then try to force others into your belief, then why not do it?

Sloan Bashinsky

Marc  Belief in something is what seems to drive humanity. I think Einstein was certain that nothing could move faster than the speed of light? But, was that simply his belief, based on what he knew? Donald Trump probably now believes he was sent by God to save America from communists - Democrats, and his ardent followers seem to believe that, too. When Trump dies and they die, will they still believe that? Oh, that assumes when they die, they don't really die, but carry on without their very short-lived (in the big scheme of things) physical bodies. Is any person, including  U.G. or J Krishnamurti, not seriously affected by their beliefs? Is there any way to be rid of beliefs? Perhaps by staying drunk and hallucinating all the time? Perhaps by dying? Hillary Clinton seemed to believe she would make a great president, lots of Democrats thought so, too, including President Obama and Vice-President Biden. Turned out, Hillary had pissed off so many Americans that she got Trump elected. I suppose Shakepeare could have really done something with that. I read where the Swiss Psychiatrist Carl Jung was asked at a party, if he believed in God? He answered, "Believe? I know." I didn't live in Dr. Jung's skin, so I have no clue what he knew. I live in my skin, and because of that, I know for a fact that angels exist, that ETs exist, that other sentient life forms exist, which are around Planet Earth. I also know I would be insane if I thought, or believed, I could prove that to anyone else. Yet, I have had friends, and I have met people, who were not church goers or Bible readers, who belonged to no religion, to no political party, to no sect, social group or cult, who knew for a fact, from their own direct experiences that were as real to them as hitting their thumbs with hammers, that humanity has no clue what is really "out there", and what is "really going on". Angels can move instantly, and can be in many places at once. They are not constrained by the speed of light. There are ETs that are not constrained by the speed of light. I saw one of their ships do circus tricks in the sky, for three people I was with, who would not even look up and watch what I was describing to them that the ship was doing. I have been messed with by demons, and by what might be called "ultraterrestrials" which are not angels, nor demons, but can travel about without needing a spaceship. There is so much humanity doesn't know that it makes humanity a very backward species. God knows what it would do to human religions, if ETs landed on the White House and Kremlin and Beijing Palace front lawns and came out of their ships and paralyzed any resistance and said, "Take us to your leaders." God knows what Christendom would do if Jesus in the Gospels came back and did what he did in the Gospels. Very likely, they would kill him. 

 

Marc Wampach

Sloan Bashinsky I do appreciate someone who goes beyond a mere utterance in reaction to a text.

Sloan Bashinsky

Marc I don't recall the title of the first of U.G.'s books that I read, but it was his firsthand account of his journey up through and past the anomalous experience that changed him permanently. It included an account of a discussion he had with J. Krishnamurti in India, before U.G. moved to the UK, as I recall, where the anomalous event happened. U.G. described the serial onset of massive physical commotion at each of his chakra areas, his physical body changed shape at each chakra, and it proceed to run its course, and by the time it was finished, he was someone else entirely. He took no credit for it. He told the many people who came to him that he had nothing to give them, but people kept coming. It's easy enough to quote what someone says, it's a little more involved to include the context for what the person said. I read other accounts by people who experienced what appeared to be full arousal of the kundalini energy, and their reports were nothing like U.G.'s report of what he experienced. I had my own anomalous experiences, far too many to even imagine trying to chronicle. Nothing like what U.G. reported he experienced. 

Malek

Marc Well! I potentially not believe in existence of god , but I do not force others to follow up my beliefs. I can not prove myself right when I had followers, but I am okay .

Sloan Bashinsky
Malek I've had countless direct experiences, still am having them, daily, which cannot be ascribed to anything human or scientific, in the human sense. Nor can they be imagined in the human sense. Belief is what most people go with, or not. Direct experience is something else altogether, and, in my experience, it cannot be proven a human way. But once it happens, there is no way to honestly ignore or pretend it didn't happen. Psychiatry, Philosophy, Science, Religion, etc. are out of their depth in the direct experience realm. I speak not just from my own personal experiences. I have known a number of people who reported having ongoing ongoing direct communion with supernatural beings. These people were lucid, sober, were not taking LSD, peyote, ayahuasca, etc. They were entirely different to relate to than anyone else. Like a different species. 

Gloria

My own experiences have not been quite as broad in range as your own, but you were there when AJA and the philosophy professor showed up during a time you and I were working on an important project, and totally blew my mind. They opened me to no longer being hesitant, shy or cautious about speaking of my own anomalous experiences with beings/ personalities beyond the ordinarily accepted.

Sloan Bashinsky

Gloria Attorney Judge Attorney and the Philosophy Professor showed up to tell you stuff to tell me, to help me deal with something awful I had set in motion, but if I had not set it in motion, I may never in this life have learned why something happened to someone in my family. Being helped in that way is very different from not of this world beings capturing me and reaming me out in many ways that I imagine might cause most people to wish there were no God.

Gloria
Sloan Bashinsky you got that right!

sloanbashinsky@yahoo.com